@seb128	Good Afternoon Desktop Lovers :)
@jono	gnomefreak, I will update the topic
Panzerboy	jono: put it in the topic
pitti	Good afternoon, Monsieur Bacher!
@seb128	I'm Sebastien Bacher, and I'm working on the Ubuntu Desktop
@seb128	and I'll lead the discussion for the next hour apparently ;)
@seb128	so let's get started
@seb128	looks like we have some Desktop Team members around
@seb128	want to present yourself quickly guys?
@Hobbsee	gah
dholbach	Hello everybody, I'm Daniel Holbach, work with "magic" seb128 in the Desktop Team and help him to work on bugs, take care of accessibility related packages, look after Telepathy and Galago packages, try to keep our wiki clean, package new stuff, do a bunch of other things I forgot in the list and try to be there for everybody. I think the Desktop Team's secret to success is Hugging.
Panzerboy	come on guys :)
@seb128	other desktop guys who want to say something? ;)
BugMaN	I'm BugMaN and i am admin of Italian Translation gruopu, and in free time i  help triage bugs in Desktop Team.
pitti	also, all sorts of i18n
@Hobbsee	sorry guys :(
Grub_Now	pwned again
shastry	Grub_Now: he lies :|
buccaneer	Jee Willikers, I am in an Ubuntu Classroom
@seb128	So the Desktop taking is basically the people who take care of the Ubuntu desktop and try to make it rocking
Grub_Now	darn
Grub_Now	Casanova: liar !
shastry	hmpf
@seb128	I've some notes for the session
@seb128	I'll copy then by block and people are free to comment after each ones
@seb128	does it work for you?
Panzerboy	seb128: yeah
@seb128	ok, let's go then :)
@seb128	The main goals for the team are:
@seb128	- update desktop packages when new upstream versions are available
@seb128	- make easy for users to try new cool softwares by packaging them quickly
@seb128	- have a good collaboration with upstream
@seb128	- triage and fix desktop bugs
@seb128	- make the Ubuntu Desktop ROCK!
@seb128
@seb128	Those are the major goals for the team
@seb128	any remark or questions on that?
crevette	Hello
fafek2	How do you know which packages want Ubuntu users?
rmunn	How does the team decide what falls in the category of "desktop packages"?
Panzerboy	seb128: this includes all the xgl aiglx compiz beryl stuff?
@seb128	fafek2: we look at forums, lists, bugs
@gnomefreak	Panzerboy: no
@seb128	Panzerboy: not really
@jono	ssh people, lets do Q+A at the end of the tutorial section
@seb128	there is a desktop-effects subteam for those
@seb128	ok
@gnomefreak	:)
Keyseir	holy ops batman
Panzerboy	seb128: ok :)
@seb128	Where you can find members of the desktop team:
@seb128	- the #ubuntu-desktop@freenode IRC chan
@seb128	- the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list
@seb128	we also look at launchpad bugs for desktop packages
@seb128	so let's see the things you can do for the desktop team if you want to contribute
@seb128	you can
@seb128	* Work on Bugs:
@seb128	Bugs managements is a good part of the work for the desktop team at the moment and required to prioritise the work and now what problems should worked first
@seb128	.
giskard	hi ;)
mnepton	seb128: you also get yelled at by weird people in montreal.
@seb128	some points about bug management
@seb128	mnepton: right :p
@seb128	- Places for desktop bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+assignedbugs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs
@seb128	- You can help the Desktop Team by joining the bug squad (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/BugSquad)
@seb128	* 236 members to date
@seb128	* ~60000 bug mails in the last year ;-)
@seb128	* Hug Days
@seb128	* forward useful bugs and investigate with upstream
Kenton	What is the workflow of a updated package?
@seb128	* make bug useful (reassign them to the right place, ask for required details, get debug backtrace for crashers, clean bugs that should be closed)
@seb128	- help listing bugs that should be fixed for the next version of Ubuntu (or fixes to backport)
Raiko	Hello
@jono	Raiko, ssh
@seb128	Kenton: let's discuss that after the presentation
@seb128	there is not only bugs
@seb128	there is also communication with other people
@seb128	* Communication with other teams, upstream, Debian, etc:
@seb128	We want to have a good relationship with the people we work with
@seb128	- work on forwarding patches upstream (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/UpstreamDelta), having a low delta is better for everybody
@seb128	- become point of contact between the distribution and upstream for packages you have an interest in
@seb128	- work with other teams and Debian
@seb128	people working on documentation:
@seb128	* Documentation:
@seb128	A good documentation help new contributors to know where to start and also not-so-new team members how to do specific things, or what is to do by example
@seb128	.
@seb128	- help by writing specifications (i.e: documents on launchpad and the wiki that describes the changes we want to get implemented and how)
@seb128	- update wiki pages for the DesktopTeam (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam) (goals, list of things to do, documentation, how to start, etc)
@seb128	- help the ubuntu-docs team
Keyseir	gnomefreak, I ran into some weird problems trying to burn a dapper install cd. I downloaded the iso, but the md5sums were different. Reactivated the torrent, it repaired itself for a second. unactivate, broken again. So I tried to leave the torrent open while burning, but the burn came out as a different md5sum sequence and the original iso was an even different sequence even though bt was still open.
@seb128	next point: packaging:
@seb128	* Packaging:
@seb128	Most of the work for a distribution is at the packaging level which means there is some place to contribute there too :)
@seb128	.
@seb128	- help doing desktop packages updates (update the package, test the new version, communicate issues with upstream is there is any)
@seb128	- pick a package you have interest in (contacting the usual maintainer before starting to work on it might be a good idea) and start working on it. No need to have uploads right to start on a package, having your first updates mentored is usually a good start and way to learn. If you do a good job you can quickly become the maintainer for that package
@seb128	- work on fixing issues by writting patches or backporting them from upstream and applying those fixes to the packages
@seb128	- package new softwares
tux75	salve a tutti
tux75	ho un paio di problemi con la mia ubuntu..
@seb128	you can also help testing:
@seb128	* Testing:
@seb128	- help testing GNOME, write specific test plans
@Hobbsee	tux75: english only please
tux75	sorry
BugMaN	tux75: write in english please, (aspetta che finisce di parlare seb128)
@seb128	and on other things too
@seb128	* Other:
@seb128	- new ideas: bring your good ideas of changes for the Ubuntu desktop and help to implement them
@seb128	- teams: if you can motivate several people to work on a project creating a team around it is a good way to organize work: pda, printing, mono, telepathy, etc
@seb128
@seb128	I think I've listed most of the groups of things you can work on as a desktop team member
@seb128	I'll mention some example of tasks to start now
tux75	i've a problem with my ubuntu: when i try to log in a terminal or into a console, i receive a FAIL_DELAY unknown error.
@seb128	Examples of tasks to start:
@seb128	- If you feel comfortable enough to reply to upstream comment about bugs there is a list of bugs that should be forwarded upstream available on http://tinyurl.com/yzd8t3 (you can also pick bugs not listed there yet, there is plenty of them not categorized to forward)
@seb128	- Clean old 'NeedsInfo' bugs
@seb128	- help out with packaging, maintaining, merging
@seb128	- review bugs with patches attached
@seb128	- look at bugs tagged as 'ubuntulove'
@gnomefreak	tux75: join #ubuntu
@seb128	- write about the new cool changes happening to the UbuntuDesktop world for UWN: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter
@seb128	- update wiki pages for the DesktopTeam to make them useful, especially for new contributors (having an updated and useful https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO would be nice by example)
sabdfl	hey seb128
@seb128	hello sabdfl
@seb128	the starting point on the wiki for the desktop team is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GettingStarted
@seb128
@seb128	ok, so that's probably enough informations presented
@seb128	let's do comments on that now
@seb128	I'm not sure if the format is ideal, that's the first session ;)
dholbach	Considering the different teams: If you're good at any programming language, you will find that you can help out in the Desktop Team also, there are bindings and programs which use them for lots of different languages, for example Python, C++, Perl, Java and so on
at2000	are KDE and Xfce managed by other teams?
@Hobbsee	at2000: yes
@seb128	is that clear for everybody what the desktop team is doing and what you can do to contribute and how to join?
@seb128	at2000: yes
daschl	seb128: i want to contribute in some way, but im afraid that my programming skills are enough. how many skills do i have to have? how many time do i have to spend on it approx. per week? thanks
dholbach	at2000: yes, there's the kubuntu-team and xubuntu-team in http://launchpad.net/people
popey	makes sense seb128
popey	seb128: can i ask a question?
@seb128	at2000: the desktop team is mainly focussed on the Ubuntu desktop (like the Ubuntu CD desktop)
mnepton	at2000: the workflows for those teams are roughly the same, with the same goals. mostly what changes is due to differences upstream.
Panzerboy	popey: don't ask to ask, just ask :)
popey	:)
@seb128	hum
fafek2	Don't you have too much responsibilities?
@seb128	jono: any idea for the format of questions?
@seb128	like one at time
fulat2k	daschl: to add to the question, what kind of language do you guys usually use?
@seb128	and how we control that?
@jono	I think its best to do things one at a time where we can
@seb128	because if everybody asks away that's going to be not easy to manage
fulat2k	any possibility to include beta releases of packages in a separate repo? :)
@gnomefreak	seb128: have them pm 1 user with the questions
popey	I have ideas for applications that I'd like to develop. I'd really value a mentor, someone who could help me over the initial hurdles of getting started
Riot777	is there some window manager currently more important than other for Ubuntu desktop team or you are trying to support all the same way ?
finalbeta	Does ubuntu have any project that could use help on coding? perl/python/java/mono. I'm a mid leveled coder so fixing bugs is not my thing. Know several high languages and willing to learn a new one. Does Ubuntu have it's own programs apart from the installer?
@seb128	ok, let's stop questions
dholbach	daschl: C, Python, C++ sometimes, and others
@jono	ok no more questions for now
@seb128	and get one question a time
popey	ok
@jono	I will indicate when we accept questions
@seb128	let me catch up
@seb128	<daschl> seb128: i want to contribute in some way, but im afraid that my programming skills are enough. how many skills do i have to have? how many time do i have to spend on it approx. per week? thanks
@seb128	daschl: no need of any particular skill
@seb128	and as much time as you want to spend
@seb128	if you spend 10 min a week to confirm some bugs
@seb128	or make an useful bug report
snail	finalbeta: ubuntu has lots of programs other than the installer
@seb128	or reply to an user support question
@jono	ok everyone -> ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
@jono	then we can pick them out
@seb128	any of that is useful
@seb128	you don't need any particular skill
daschl	thanks
@seb128	just pick something you feel comfortable doing
burner	regarding "new ideas," what would be the preferred way to receive these?  so far, I just created an .odt file with screenshots and mockups and text about the general plan, would that suffice?  I notice a wiki page for something similar, is that checked? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Visions
@seb128	might be replying to some user, filling a good bug, forwarding something upstream, etc
@seb128	.
@seb128	next question
pitti	note: if somebody particularly likes a program and wants to help with bug triage, it would be incredibly helpful if you could establish a contact to upstream, forward bugs to him, discuss bugs, etc.; i. e. become the packages' 'ambassador'
@seb128	<fulat2k> daschl: to add to the question, what kind of language do you guys usually use?
@seb128	.
pitti	this doesn't require much programming skills, and is a valuable contribution
@seb128	any language used by upstream
@seb128	we don't write a lot of app from scratch
@seb128	we get 95% of what we ship from upstream
@seb128	.
@seb128	pitti has a good point
@seb128	that's something which is especially appreciate
fulat2k	seb128: point noted
pitti	... and is rewarded with lots of hugs, and even more important, better quality
pitti	:)
@seb128	if you have interest in a package and want to work on it and as a contact point for it that's really appreciate
pitti	... and KARMA
@seb128	by the distro team
@gnomefreak	lol
@seb128	by upstream
mnepton	finalbeta: pitti's and seb's comments address your question. if you're interested in writing new code rather than triaging, packaging, or applying small modifications, look upstream to the GNOME, KDE, or XFCE desktop projects.
@seb128	and by users
@seb128	<popey> I have ideas for applications that I'd like to develop. I'd really value a mentor, someone who could help me over the initial hurdles of getting started
@seb128	popey: you can create a specification for that, or mail a list with your ideas
popey	which list?
@seb128	ubuntu-desktop if that's something for the desktop
popey	it is
@seb128	ok, so mail the list
popey	ok, will do
@seb128	good
popey	thanks
@jono	everyone, prefix your question in #ubuntu-classroom-chat with QUESTION so we can spot them easily :)
@seb128	<burner> regarding "new ideas," what would be the preferred way to receive these?  so far, I just created an .odt file with screenshots and mockups and text about the general plan, would that suffice?  I notice a wiki page for something similar, is that checked? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Visions
@gnomefreak	:)
dholbach	writing a specification and track it in launchpad is a good idea for writing a new app also
@seb128	burner: I've to admit that .odt is not my preferred way ;)
@seb128	the wiki is nice
@seb128	you can also mail the desktop list (with your .odt if that makes the presentation easier for you)
davmor2	is there a preferred level of detail for bugs I understand that this doesn't work isn't that uesful but what do you class as acceptable
popey	thanks dholbach
@seb128	davmor2: details on what you were doing, version of Ubuntu you are using
@seb128	if the crash happens on a document, having an example attached is useful
dholbach	http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures may help in some cases also
@gnomefreak	pitti: ambassidor = maintainer?
@seb128	for a bug a debug backtrace (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash) is usually required to do something with the bug
dholbach	gnomefreak: no, not necessarily. that's somebody being interested and working on the package
@seb128	s/bug/crash
pitti	gnomefreak: FSVO 'maintainer'; this is mainly a communication issue
@gnomefreak	k
@seb128	next question
@seb128	<at2000> QUESTION: can everyone write a spec in launchpad? does it mean I intend to work on that spec or just suggestion of a feature?
@seb128
@seb128	at2000: anybody can write a spec yes
@seb128	no need to work on it, though it make it easier to be implemented
@seb128	we all are already pretty busy
xerxas	being an ambassador for a package is an "abstract" role, right ? there's no such thing in launchpad, right ?
@seb128	and there is not a lot of extra new things we can implement with only the core team work
@seb128	xerxas: right
sabdfl	xerxas: that's a good point, we should make that an explicit role
xerxas	I think it would be a good idea
@seb128	me too
xerxas	I would like to become ambassador on at least one package, which one, I don't know
@seb128	that would make things easier for upstream too
@gnomefreak	i like that too but having more than one will get confusing
@seb128	they would know who to contact
xerxas	gnomefreak,  so we'll need some ambassador helpers
DShepherd	/top
xerxas	or "ambassador assistant"
mnepton	gnomefreak: write the spec. :)
Stemp	isn't one of the role of the package maintener ?
@gnomefreak	i will work on it later today
@seb128	Stemp: we don't have a fixed maintainer
@seb128	next question
@seb128	<DreamLost> QUESTION: translation is dealt upstream?
@seb128	DreamLost: I'm not sure to get the question, and it's not really desktop specific
@seb128	translations come from rosetta
xerxas	sabdfl, what's up with this ambassador role ?
@seb128	we import upstream translations and people are free to work on them from rosetta
BugMaN	DreamLost:  translation in Rosetta start from Upstream
xerxas	should I write a spec for launchapd ? or make a feature request somewhere ?
wrjevowar	quit
BugMaN	DreamLost: but some times ubuntu have new string in a package different from upstream
jpetso	are the rosetta translations fed back to upstream, and if yes, how?
@seb128	DreamLost: does that reply to your question?
@seb128	jpetso: no
DreamLost	yes, tnks
davmor2	if a program crashes where would you find a printable log in order to send a copy I have had this issue a couple of times?
@seb128	jpetso: rosetta team is working on some feature to make easier for them to get the changes though
@seb128	davmor2: questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
@seb128	next one
@seb128	<effie_jayx> QUESTION: Are there more localized teams wornking with the ubuntu-desktop-team.?
@seb128	effie_jayx: can you explain what you want to know exactly?
effie_jayx	there is an ubuntu grpoup
effie_jayx	in my country
@seb128	like if there is a desktop-team-<locale>?
effie_jayx	are people already contributing from there as a group
effie_jayx	I don't want to oversee the effort of other groups in my region
@seb128	the desktop-team works on the Ubuntu packages
@seb128	that effort is not splitted by region or group
@seb128	you are probably speaking about a locoteam
effie_jayx	ajam... I just want to know that ... thanks
@seb128	the efforts are not overlaping, don't worry
@seb128	ok
@seb128	next one
@seb128	<Jucato> QUESTION: are there Kubuntu/Xubuntu Desktop Teams too?
@seb128	Jucato: yes, there is a kubuntu and a xubuntu team
sabdfl	xerxas: perhaps chat with folks on #launchpad, then it could turn into a small feature spec, yes
@seb128	next question
@seb128	QUESTION: what would be the best way to find which packages are in need of maintainers/packagers?
xerxas	sabdfl, thanks
@seb128	no easy way at the moment I would say
@seb128	look if the package is usually quickly updated
@seb128	and on the work done on its bugs
@Hobbsee	anything that has the maintainer set as debian qa, too.
@Hobbsee	(i think)
dholbach	if you're interested in a certain package, you can ask about it on ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
@seb128	Hobbsee: that's for Debian
@Hobbsee	seb128: true
@seb128	Hobbsee: a package with no Debian maintainer can have somebody taking care of it on the Ubuntu side
@seb128	that is a good question though
@Hobbsee	seb128: true, but how likely is that?
@seb128	it would be interesting to have some information at the launchpad level about that
mvo	or we could use watch files from debian when available
@seb128	like "how actively a package is maintained"
@seb128	anybody having good idea on how to evaluate that?
@seb128	mvo: right, please open a launchpad feature request (if not already filed) :)
xerxas	QUESTION: can I close some bugs that are in NEEDINFO for a long time (what does a long time mean ?)
sabdfl	we do track the idea of a maintainer for a package in Launchpad
xerxas	(I'm having hard times making decision with malone )
sabdfl	debian asked us to distinguish between the debian maintainer and the ubuntu maintainer or team
@seb128	xerxas: question on -chat please, yes, usually I wait one month and close it if there is no reply to the request for informations about the problem
@seb128	next question
@seb128	<davmor2> QUESTION: if a program crashes where would you find a printable log in order to send a copy I have had this issue a couple of times?
kappa	the difference between versions of a package in Ubuntu and in upstream can be used as a measure of active maintaintership
@seb128	davmor2: since edgy "apport" will created a crash file when a crash happens
@seb128	davmor2: they are stored to /var/crash
Grishkin	grishkin@ULTRA:/media/cdrom$ ls /var/crash
Grishkin	ls: /var/crash: No such file or directory
@seb128	davmor2: you can read about it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
srikanthssn	seb128, what about drapper ?
crosis	dapper, not drapper
@seb128	srikanthssn: for GNOME programs bug-buddy is open after the crash and you can get the bt from it
@seb128	srikanthssn: otherwise cf https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash (use gdb)
@seb128
@seb128	next question
@seb128	<at2000> QUESTION: what is the process to submit a patch for a package? is this documented somewhere?
@seb128	at2000: attach it to the corresponding bug to launchpad
@seb128	if there is no bug open one
leks	QUESTION: May I ask, why patches fixing eth0 (e1000) on my ibm t60 are in edgy, but not in feisty?
leks	T60 Thinkpad
@seb128	leks: question to -chat please, and I don't know about that, not really desktopish :)
at2000	so someone will review the pack and check-in if appropriate?
at2000	do I need to do anything to the bug report to notify someone to review?
@seb128	at2000: correct
@seb128	no
at2000	ic
burner	seb128: are there any plans for better remote access support via the Desktop team here or would that be more of a gnome/kde/xfce thing?
@seb128	people will get the mail about your patch
@seb128	burner: question to -chat please
@seb128	next one
@seb128	<daschl> QUESTION: say i want to fix a bug. this bux was fixed in upstream how can i get that into the ubuntu package? how can i handle the "ok i have a bug here, what should i do next"-thing?
@seb128
@seb128	daschl: that is a good question
@seb128	daschl: open a bug to launchpad saying it's fixed upstream and you would appreciate a backport of the fix
@seb128	pointing to the upstream commit or attaching a patch make the job easier for us
@seb128	or pointing the corresponding upstream bug
dholbach	we have a canned bug search for "patch attached"
@seb128	we tend to backport only annoying issue and not every glitch fix though
daschl	i c .. thanks!
@seb128	so better to not flood us with request to backport every commit
@seb128	we would be happy to backport lot of patches but it's a lot of work and we have only few people working on desktop packages atm
@seb128	hint: you can help making a package better by co-maintaining it ;)
daschl	so more people working = more backports available, right?
@seb128	daschl: correct :)
@seb128
@seb128	next one for dholbach
@seb128	<proppy> QUESTION: is there something like 'debian wnpp' for ubuntu ?
@seb128	I think we have some wiki page for that
bhale	revu?
@seb128	dholbach usually knows the wiki better than me :)
bhale	wiki.ubuntu.com/revu
@seb128	bhale: wnpp is "I would like to get that packaged"
bhale	http://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
@seb128	bhale: REVU is only for things already packaged no?
dholbach	if you refer to Debian's ITPs and RFPs it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
bhale	seb128: oh, i was thinking of something else then
apokryphos	ubotu: revu
ubotu	REVU is a web-based tool to give people who have worked on Ubuntu packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and comment on in a structured manner. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
bhale	ITP, not RFP
bhale	lart me please
dholbach	(ITP = Intent to package, RFP = Request for package)
@seb128	proppy: <dholbach> if you refer to Debian's ITPs and RFPs it's http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
@seb128	here you go :)
dholbach	which has moved to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Candidates :-)
proppy	seb128: thanks
@seb128	np
@seb128	next question
mherweg	MOTU ?
@seb128	<davmor2> QUESTION: How many package currently fall under the duristiction of the desktop team to give us some idea of how much work you have?
@Hobbsee	lots.
apokryphos	mherweg: /msg ubotu motu
@seb128	https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs
@seb128	https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+assignedbugs
@seb128	1813 bugs assigned
@seb128	2345 bugs subscribed
@seb128	we looked recently with dholbach and all the desktop-bugs (closed one included) is like 7500 bugs
pikkio	lots of work :)
@seb128	and there is probably a good bunch not assigned to the team
@seb128	dholbach: https://launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+packages is empty, did it use to work?
davmor2	seb128 so does that include the packages you have to update or is that just physical bugs
@seb128	we used to have a table of the packages with number of bugs I think
@Hobbsee	davmor2: physical bugs
@seb128	davmor2: bugs
dholbach	seb128: that's only for packages, where desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com is the maintainer
@seb128	davmor2: I'm not sure about packages, it's about an hundred I would say
dholbach	seb128: you mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/people/desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
davmor2	okay
@seb128	see the link from dholbach
@seb128	it has a list of packages
@seb128	dholbach: thank you :)
dholbach	:-)
@seb128	next one
@seb128	(10 min left)
@seb128	<jpetso> QUESTION: is there any way to work on packages on the currently stable release, without having to set up stable+1?
@Hobbsee	by using a pbuilder, or dual booting
@Hobbsee	!pbuilder
ubotu	pbuilder is a system to easily build packages in a clean chroot environment. To get started with PBuilder, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto
@seb128	jpetso: not easy, some apps don't change a lot though
@seb128	or pbuilder
@seb128	or you can still help on the wiki, packaging new apps if the requirements are available on stable
@seb128	or triage bugs
@seb128	or reply to support requests
pitti	some desktop applications are a bit hard to work on in chroots/pbuilder; for these, vmware comes in handy
jpetso	ok :)
giskard	pitti, what apps?
@seb128	next one
pitti	giskard: things like gdm, dbus, etc.
@seb128	<davmor2> QUESTION: Do you favour slab over the standard gnome interface for menu's?
@seb128	.
@seb128	davmor2: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-slab
pitti	or any app that requires newer libraries, etc.
giskard	pitti, ahhhh! oki :)
@seb128	davmor2: that's the spec about that, the reply is "no"
@seb128	we will likely ship it on the CD
@seb128	maybe with a desktop profiles app which allow to switch profiles easily
@seb128	but we will not pick a different default than upstream
strosset	join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
@jono	get your final questions in people!
@jono	five mins left!
strosset	\join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
guebay	What does UTC mean? Here is 16:54 (Timezone Berlin). How can I calculate now what this is in UTC?
@jono	although we can run over a little as there is no session next
andre	strosset: /
@seb128	next
dholbach	guebay: date -u
giskard	guebay, date -u
@seb128	good question
strosset	thx
@seb128	<exo-griffith> QUESTION: You mentioned the ubuntulove tag in launchpad. What does it mean?
@seb128
@Hobbsee	guebay: see the tinyurl link in the topic, too
giskard	dholbach, :
jpetso	guebay: UTC = Berlin - 1
@seb128	exo-griffith: that's an "if you look at something to do", like something easy to start and useful
@seb128	dholbach has tagged a bunch of those bugs
@seb128	I'm trying to do that too
@seb128	we will put extra work on that and the TODO list too
dholbach	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs has a "Tasks" section
exo-griffith	so they're a good place to start then?
@seb128	it's a way to make easy for people to find something they can start on
@seb128	right
@seb128	because there is so many component, not easy to know where to start
@seb128	we are trying to figure way to make that first step easier
exo-griffith	Cool. Thanks. I'll check them out. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ubuntulove
@seb128	if you have any suggestion on the topic feel free to join #ubuntu-bugs to discuss them at any time :)
@seb128	or #ubuntu-desktop
@seb128	next
@seb128	<Jucato> QUESTION: what is the process for updates (bug fixes and security patches)? how long does it take for bugs that have been patched/fixed upstream to be patched in a current release?
bhale	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
@seb128	Jucato: for stable updates: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
@seb128	for unstable version?
@seb128	as fast as we can come to it
pitti	Jucato: for security bugs, we work independently from upstream releases
@seb128	as mentionned before we have some thousand bugs
leks	QUESTION: Did ubuntu decide between compiz and beryl already ?(go for compiz!)
@seb128	and an hundred packages
pitti	Jucato: when there is a patch, we review/QA/test it and issue an USN
bhale	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityUpdateProcedures
Jucato	alright, thanks! :)
@gnomefreak	sabdfl pitti the spec for ambassadors is already made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ambassadors
@seb128	and only a couple of people working on them
@seb128	so it can take some time
apokryphos	leks: questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please =)
@gnomefreak	nvm
@seb128	ok
leks	sorry :-$
@seb128	hour is over but there is no session next and still some QUESTION
@seb128	so let's keep going :)
@Hobbsee	seb128: QUESTION: is there a "step-by-step" tutorial out there for "how-to-fix-my-first-bug" which includes the procedures and so on?
@seb128	Hobbsee: -chat please
@jono	## well, you lucky people, there is no session for the next hour so seb is going to keep going while the questions are coming - keep posting the questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
@Hobbsee	seb128: that was from -chat
@jono	:)
@Hobbsee	seb128: i just missed the name
@seb128	Hobbsee: oh, I pick them in order, no need to bother, thank you :)
@Hobbsee	okay
@seb128	Hobbsee: or do you want to copy them in order?
@seb128	Hobbsee: (you skipped one)
@seb128	waouh, lot of questions
@Hobbsee	seb128: wasnt trying to.  thought you were picking and choosing, due to time.
@Hobbsee	yes, exactly
@seb128	ok, let's select
Rawplayer	hi
@Hobbsee	hence i picked one that you definetly want to answer, as it gets asked a lot
@seb128	Hobbsee: please copy there the interesting one then
@seb128	good
@Hobbsee	i just did.
@seb128	please include the name :)
@seb128	so I know who I reply to :)
@Hobbsee	it ran away...looking...
@Hobbsee	seb128: <daschl> QUESTION: is there a "step-by-step" tutorial out there for "how-to-fix-my-first-bug" which includes the procedures and so on?
@seb128	let's give a quick reply to the previous one
@seb128	<Hobbsee> seb128: QUESTION: is there a "step-by-step" tutorial out there for "how-to-fix-my-first-bug" which includes the procedures and so on?
@seb128	Hobbsee Hobbsee|Remote
@seb128	since that's a good question
@seb128	no tutorial afaik
@seb128	but an excellent idea
@Hobbsee	wasnt jono writing one?  where would it be put?
@seb128	so if anybody wants to work on one
dholbach	https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-August/019922.html has information for getting your patch uploaded into the archive
daschl	i'm really lost when it comes to that topic ;)
dholbach	attaching a patch to a bug report is a very good start, or filing a bug at all and testing patches that come up :)
@seb128	any contribution to lower the first step for people who want to contribute is welcome :)
@seb128	dholbach: the issue is that "writting a patch" is not something easy for beginners
Dannilion	;...;[p....,,,kkkkkk,,,,,llllll;pppp[##
pointwood	yeah, a tutorial would be very welcome
@seb128	we should document how to make a patch
dholbach	surely not
Dannilion	'''iiiioip'#
Dannilion	#~#'''']]########
daschl	i wanted to ask that too.. because i dont know how to create a patch but i thought this is not a desktop-related problem
dholbach	"Patching packages!" a talk by pitti later this week
@seb128	ACTION; jono to write some nice tutorial
pointwood	what info should I provide when I want to report some hardware that doesn't work? example: a printer
@Hobbsee	seb128: he's on the phone
dholbach	Thu 30th Nov 18:00 UTC
@seb128	ok
dholbach	pointwood: #ubuntu-classroom-chat
@seb128	daschl: good point, we are going to fix that :)
@seb128	Hobbsee: next question ?
daschl	thanks seb
@seb128	np
@Hobbsee	seb128: <pikkio> QUESTION: when a bug is fixed in launchpad, will be always fixed in upstream as well?
@seb128	no
@seb128	pikkio: few upstream read launchpad bugs at the moment
@seb128	if you can encourage upstreams to do so you are welcome :)
@seb128	otherwise we need to "forward" bugs upstream
pikkio	ok, thanks :)
@Hobbsee	seb128: <fafek2> QUESTION: What are priorities of Desktop Team now, apart from specs for Feisty Fawn?
@seb128	that's a part of the bug triage work I mentionned before
@seb128	if you are confident a bug is upstream you can file it to their bug tracker directly too
@seb128
pikkio	i'll do it :)
@seb128	fafek2: catch up with bug flood, package new versions of desktop apps
dholbach	and package new exciting apps :-)
@seb128	working on documentation etc to make easier for people to join the team
@seb128	the specs have already enough goal to keep the core team busy for the cycle actually
fafek2	I mean what's the vision? How Ubuntu should look like in your opinion?
@seb128	any specific point?
@seb128	we are likely to have a composite manager installed by default for feisty (compiz or beryl)
@Hobbsee	the releated question there:  <kai[sds]> QUESTION: what is the long term vision for the ubuntu-desktop beyond feisty? what are the areas you are not satisfied with yet (regarding features not bugs)?
@seb128	and I think we might give a try to tracker
dholbach	we'll have exciting Telepathy bits and bobs :-)
@seb128	and telepathy too, right
giskard	yeah!
@seb128	no "long term" vision
jonibo	What's the advantage of tracker over beagle???
bhale	"the coolest new stuff"
@seb128	we want better visual experience
@seb128	and the best from upstream world
@seb128	visual bling is compiz or beryl atm
bhale	tracker is more lightweight than beagle
kai[sds]	seb: so basically gnome defines that vision?
@seb128	we will likely work on a better GDM experience too
@seb128	kai[sds]: not only GNOME, but upstream
@seb128	compiz or beryl are not part of GNOME
jonibo	bhale: due to it not being Mono?
@seb128	tracker neither
bhale	jonibo: no
@seb128	jonibo: beagle is another option
@seb128	we have nothing decided yet
giskard	seb128, compiz or beryl will be handled by ubuntu-desktop?
@seb128	and that's not going to be a quick discussion
@seb128	better to not start it here today :)
@seb128	giskard: ubuntu-desktop-effects
@seb128	giskard: member of ubuntu-desktop will look at it too for pretty sure
giskard	ok.
@seb128	especially if that's part of the default desktop
@Hobbsee	seb128: *grin*
@seb128	next :)
giskard	:)
@seb128	Hobbsee: next one please :)
@Hobbsee	QUESTION: How do you choose which program to use as default (using the compiz/beril example)?
@seb128	hum
kai[sds]	but shouldn't people think about some kind of direction and not just go with the upstream flow? i mean upstream there are lots of nice innovations, but they probably dont look at the desktop as a whole
@Hobbsee	(seb128: there are a lot of beryl/compiz related questions)
@seb128	that's not easy to choice
@seb128	there is our feeling about the software
@gnomefreak	that is not really the -desktop teams products
@seb128	how upstream is responsive
@seb128	user feedback on it
@seb128	etc
mvo	the technical comite will choose in the end AFAIK
jonibo	biggest question I would have about desktop effects is:  how do you avoid leaving people with old graphics card behind?
WebMaven	jonibo: make the effects optional.
@seb128	fallback to metacity for such configs
@seb128	we need to work a good way to know if effects are working fine for that though
@seb128	it'll be one box to click to have effects or not anyway
@Hobbsee	seb128: i think that's a wider question than just compiz/beryl, fyi - how do you decide out of all gnome apps which to include?
@seb128	<seb128> that's not easy to choice
@seb128	<seb128> there is our feeling about the software
@Hobbsee	ah, missed that
@seb128	<seb128> how upstream is responsive
@seb128	user feedback on it
@seb128	etc
@Hobbsee	sorry, was scrolling for more questions
@seb128	np
jonibo	But that means you are maintaining two systems: one with and one without effects.
@seb128	lot of activity :)
@seb128	jonibo: any other solution?
jonibo	no, not really.
@seb128	we don't have neither
jonibo	but it's important that some people keep working on systems without effects...
@seb128	but if you figure one we will be happy to read about it :)
jonibo	to make sure that they still work ok.
@seb128	yeah
@seb128	to be honest metacity is stable enough
@seb128	and we don't expect lot of work on it
jonibo	hard to work up an interest to work on systems without effects when you can have them...
@seb128	but we will keep shipping both
jonibo	good.
Amaranth	jonibo: Don't worry, I'm sure there will be people that don't use beryl/compiz just because they don't like it. :)
@seb128	not true
@Hobbsee	seb128: <elvstone> QUESTION: Is there any cooperation going on between the Kubuntu and the Ubuntu Desktop Team? I'm a soon-to-be Kubuntu laptop user.
@seb128	some people like visual bling
@seb128	some other don't
jonibo	alright... I hope that's the case.
@seb128	Hobbsee: on the area used by both we try
jonibo	i think the metacity/compiz separation is quite safe... it's when more effects get integrated into the core applications that things get sluggish on older systems.
@seb128	elvstone: on the area used by both we try
@seb128	like pitti looked at some kubuntu printing bugs after updating cups I think
elvstone	seb128: okay :)
@seb128	mvo has a look on some kubuntu specs similar to the Ubuntu ones he works on too
elvstone	does Kubuntu have a "Desktop Team" of its own?
dneary	Hi
dholbach	dneary: #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
@Hobbsee	elvstone: kubuntu has a whole lot of people in #kubuntu-devel
Lure	elvstone: there is just kubuntu-team
apokryphos	elvstone: not specifically. Since the main difference in Kubuntu is the desktop
@seb128	elvstone: no, "kubuntu-team" is sort of "KDE Desktop"
@Hobbsee	elvstone: so sort of.
@seb128	other parts are common
elvstone	okidok.
Lure	elvstone: and you can join kubuntu-team (if you want to be notified of kde bugs in launchpad)
elvstone	Lure: ah. okay.
elvstone	i really want my laptop now :) it will be in stock 1 dec.
@seb128	Hobbsee: next?
pip	Hello all
apokryphos	elvstone: cool; be sure to join us in #kubuntu around then :)
@Hobbsee	[03:21] <oz__> QUESTION: are there thoughts to include a preconfigured install-server in ubuntu?
elvstone	apokryphos: will do.
pip	Hobbsee: did I miss something exciting ?
@Hobbsee	pip: yes, but there are logs.  see the /topic for more info
@seb128	hum
@seb128	"install-server"?
@seb128	that doesn't look like "DesktopTeamIsh" to me
@Hobbsee	seb128: <DreamLost> QUESTION: do you use any automatic testing tools? Given being hard to test GUIs...
jackflap	so did any suse developers show up?
@seb128	good question
@seb128	DreamLost: not at the moment
jackflap	hehe
@seb128	but that's a good remark
@Hobbsee	jackflap: #ubuntu-classroom-chat for chat
@seb128	and something we would be happy to set up
oz__	seb128: are only desktopish questions allowed now?
@seb128	there is that "Announcing dogtail: a GUI automation and test framework"
somerville32	Did I miss Sebastien Bache's session?
@seb128	which could be interesting to look at
@Hobbsee	oz__: as that's what this team is about, yes
eugene	dogtail is pretty useful for automating gui testing
@seb128	if something is interested to make that happen
@seb128	oz__: that's the "Desktop Team" session, so better to ask desktop questions yep
@seb128	oz__: there is plenty of non-desktop session during the week for other questions :)
@seb128	somerville32: still doing Q and A on it
@seb128	DreamLost: do you want to work with us to set up some automatic testing suit for the Ubuntu desktop?
@seb128	that would be really cool :)
DreamLost	:) stil a litle over my league im afraid :)
@seb128	k
@seb128	still a good thing
@Hobbsee	seb
@seb128	if anybody has interest in it
@Hobbsee	seb128: <fafek2> QUESTION: Do you develop Ubuntu administration applets?
@seb128	let me know :)
@seb128	fafek2: no, we use gnome-system-tools for that at the moment
@seb128	we already had several discussion if that would be worth starting writing new tools from scratch
mvo	seb128: if software-properties is a administration applet, then yes, some
@seb128	we didn't for now though
@seb128	right, depending on what you can "administration applets"
@seb128	package managers are administration tools too :)
Rawplayer	webmin?:)
@seb128	Rawplayer: I'll not reply to that :-P
juliux	webmin is evil;)
samgee	quit
mherweg	yast!
@seb128	next question
@seb128	QUICK
@seb128	before having the chan going out of control :p
N7C	hi ppls
@Hobbsee	seb128: <bhale> QUESTION: Who does Daniel Holbach's hair?
@seb128	bhale: I suspect it's mvo
@seb128	but we can't say for sure
giskard	ahahah
dholbach	bhale: EEHHHHH?
@Hobbsee	seb128: <leks> QUESTION: will Network-Manager ever get installed by default, probably in feisty? plus updated configuration tools, to use it?
@seb128	pitti?
pitti	that's the plan
@seb128	leks: I think it'll be by default for feisty
@seb128	pitti will know better
siretart	.oO( if only nm wasn't that buggy... )
pitti	we will teach it to work better with manual configurations and integrate better with network-admin
@Hobbsee	seb128: <leks> QUESTION: Will the brown ever be ditched, as mark formerly said once? (After the fourth release or something)  sabdfl?
pitti	yeah, and bug fixing is a must
@seb128	pitti: thank you :)
_ion	If i may say something related to the earlier tracker vs. beagle question: tracker is not only an indexer, but it also functions as a generic metadata store. For example, if programs use tracker for tagging files, the tags are shared between all programs. Nautilus and the Gtk file dialog could hypothetically have a similar tagging widget as F-Spot has. A library could be made so that any program could easily use such widget.
Amaranth	_ion: We know.
_ion	amaranth: I'd guess the person who asked the question didn't.
jayteeuk	pitti: How do I get involved?  I'd love to see NM as a default install.
@seb128	leks: you will be happy to know that Ubuntu is orange since dapper ;)
sabdfl	Hobbsee: we have theme teams who are working on complete themes, and if one of those meets the test of being (a) classy and (b) distinctive it could become a new default theme
sabdfl	leks: ^^^
apokryphos	leks: this is covered well in Mark's wiki page. Basically little in Ubuntu will be very static, so yeah, it may well (and has) changed over time
@Hobbsee	sabdfl: you want to reply to leks, i'm just pasting questions :)
pitti	jayteeuk: test it thoroughly, report bugs, work with upstream to get them resolved
pitti	jayteeuk: we need all hands we can get for this
giskard	jayteeuk, and triage bugs ;)
@Hobbsee	seb128: <somerville32> QUESTION: One of the SABDFL's goals for feisty was the adoption of emerging desktop technologies. What are these emerging desktop technologies and what goals have the desktop team set to align themselves with this direction?
apokryphos	somerville32: one of two window managers possibly. Beryl or compiz. Some information:
apokryphos	ubotu: beryl
ubotu	Beryl is a window manager that takes advantage of an OpenGL accelerated X environment. See http://forum.beryl-project.org/ - Help in #ubuntu-xgl
apokryphos	ubotu: compiz
ubotu	Compiz (compositing window manager) and XGL (X server architecture layered on top of OpenGL) - Howto at http://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompositeManager - Help in #ubuntu-xgl - See http://tinyurl.com/pw5ez for Kubuntu systems
@seb128	fafek2: I've read your note about disk-admins on the other chan. The code was not good, but right would be nice to have a new tool for that. I might work on it that cycle, depending on busy I am. If you want to start a such project you are welcome :)
jayteeuk	pitti: And is there a spec available on the wiki or similar to help me understand how NM interacts with other parts of the system?
pitti	jayteeuk: not to my knowledge; but feel free to ping me in #ubuntu-devel about this
apokryphos	somerville32: what will probably happen is that for able systems (good enough graphics cards) they'll adopt one of these window managers by default. These have some cool effects, such as wobbly windows, nice animations, etc. See above pages
@Hobbsee	seb128: [03:33] <eliteforce> QUESTION: when will a really stable version of ubuntu be released, without xx bugs in core components (:
jayteeuk	pitti: OK thanks.
@seb128	somerville32: cf discussion on compiz,beryl from some questions ago, we might have a look on beagle or tracker too, and dholbach and the telepathy team are looking on telepathy
@seb128	eliteforce: when upstream stop writting boggus program :)
somerville32	:)
@seb128	eliteforce: joke aside, we do our best to fix bugs, it's not always easy since there is lot of them
@seb128	dapper was pretty good I think
@seb128	edgy was a very short cycle so it has not been easy
@seb128	anybody can make a difference here by helping fixing a bug :)
daschl	ill try to do so
daschl	:)
@seb128	excellent
@seb128	you can get hugs on #ubuntu-bugs for any bug you fix, just let know dholbach :)
daschl	so i did it with gnu/linux in general.. a friend of mine helped me with my first steps and now i want to give back to the community what i got
daschl	i just realized that i can talk german with dholbach ;D
@seb128	that's the spirit :)
@seb128	hehe
@seb128	with mvo or pitti
@seb128	too
@seb128	lot of german guys around :)
amarillion	I've experienced it's very hard to get started fixing bugs. What are your plans for making it easier for outsiders to join the bugfixing process?
juliux	daschl, see also #ubuntu-de
eliteforce	i think "stable" releases should be delayed sometimes, to get more bugs fixed
daschl	oh :D .. i just wanted to sign the code of conduct but it seems that the keyserver need some time
@seb128	<binary2k2> QUESTION: If you install a *ubuntu-desktop metapackage, is there an easy way to remove all the dependences, so you remove the desktop environment?
@seb128	binary2k2: apt-get remove *ubuntu-desktop
@seb128	apt-get autoremove
@seb128	that feature is available for apt since edgy
jonibo	daschl: keyserver has been problematic for the last week... i've been trying too.
@seb128	hugs go to mvo for that one
fabbione	eliteforce: stable doesn't necessarely mean bug free. stable means that has a constantly predictable behaviour.. including bugs
leetcharmer	hail, all :D
davmor2	seb128 shouldn't those be sudo apt-get remove
elvstone	seb128: so apt-get autoremove *ubuntu-desktop?
@seb128	eliteforce: we delayed dapper for 6 weeks
elvstone	seb128: or is it two commands?
leetcharmer	how's it goin' everyone?
@seb128	elvstone: no, "apt-get autoremove"
stalefries	!hi | leetcharmer
ubotu	leetcharmer: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-classroom!
elvstone	seb128: ah. okay.
@seb128	elvstone: it cleans everything marked as to remove
elvstone	seb128: alright.
leetcharmer	I'm here for open week :D which part are we at?? Packaging?
@seb128	davmor2: correct, faster to not type sudo to every command on IRC though :)
@seb128	leetcharmer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
Amaranth	leetcharmer: desktop team. Please join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
@seb128	davmor2: we are still doing question for the 15utc one since the 16utc slot was free
@seb128	ups
@seb128	that was for leetcharmer
leetcharmer	seb128, thanks :D
@seb128	np ;)
leetcharmer	what did we learn so far? (if I can ask here.)
@Hobbsee	!logs > leetcharmer
@seb128	leetcharmer: we are doing questions and answers for one hour now, not easy to summarize
@seb128	<somerville32> QUESTION: What do you feel is the biggest obstacles facing the Ubuntu desktop team at this time and how do you plan to overcome these obstacles?
@Hobbsee	seb128: were you after more questoins pasted, or will you scroll for htem?
@seb128	Hobbsee: I just picked one
@Hobbsee	bah, that's what i was about to paste :)
@seb128	did you copy one I didn't notice?
@seb128	hehe
@Hobbsee	seb128: the other:  [03:37] <Grishkin> QUESTION: will KDE4 , firefox 2 and any other new apps be ever backported on dapper?
@Hobbsee	answer both :)
@seb128	somerville32: clearly the number of bugs at the moment I would say
@seb128	overcome: make easier for people to help and try to get upstream helping us when possible too
@seb128	there is just too many of them for the number of people looking at them at the moment
@seb128	we tried to work lot of extra hours, that doesn't scale
@seb128	we need your help :)
@gnomefreak	firefox and kde4 shouldnt be backported anywhere afaik Hobbsee
@seb128	your being anybody who wants to give a hand
@Hobbsee	gnomefreak: i didnt ask the question
@seb128	Grishkin: no
@Hobbsee	gnomefreak: i'm just pasting
@gnomefreak	oh
Grishkin	seb128 , thanks
stani	will kde4 be ready for kubuntu feisty?
@Hobbsee	no
@gnomefreak	stani: not liekly
@seb128	Grishkin: the backport team does backport apps
elvstone	definately not i'd say.
@Hobbsee	stani: there's a preview in the repositories at the moment, but it wont be out in time.
@seb128	those are not easy to backport though
@seb128	especially if they can break other apps
TLE	Hey so there's a session on pacakging in about 15 min right ?
@seb128	like firefox is used by epiphany-browser, devhelp, yelp, etc
RadiantFire	i was under the impression a feisty CD was going to be remastered to contain KDE4 whe it was releasd
@seb128	TLE: correct
jonibo	GSmartMix?  Will it be ready for Feisty?
@Hobbsee	ask the gsmartmix devs
@seb128	RadiantFire: might be, that's not Ubuntu though, that would be a special milestone CD for KDE4 probably, better to ask to the kubuntu team
apokryphos	RadiantFire: if it's out in feisty's time, yeah. But not for dapper, almost certainly.
apokryphos	(i.e. kde release date is still open; it may be feisty+1 time till it's out, depending on KDE TB plan of action)
@seb128	QUESTION: I've experienced it's very hard to get started fixing bugs. What are your plans for making it easier for outsiders to join the bugfixing process?
@seb128	amarillion: what do you find hard?
@Hobbsee	seb128: i think we're planning to have repos for it, at some point.  not sure for which releases though
nosse	what should I learn if I want to squash bugs? and is there an irc channel somewhere full of people wanting to help me to start?
dholbach	nosse: #ubuntu-bugs
@seb128	as dholbach said
amarillion	for example: I joined the mailing list for a while. But the amount of bugs is completely overwhelming. So I stopped that immediately
dholbach	and ubuntu-bugsquad@lists.ubuntu.com of course
stani	A maybe small request is possible in the channel topic to mention also the current topic, eg now "Ubuntu Desktop" I know it is possible to look it up,etc... but it would be more nice.
amarillion	It would be nice if there was a way to say... get 10 random bugs each weak
nosse	thanks
@Hobbsee	seb128: did we want to have a 10 min break between sessions?
@seb128	Hobbsee: yep, we want
@seb128	we will stop on that bug fixing one I think
@seb128	thank you everybody for the questions
apokryphos	I quite like the KDE method of "JJ:" prefixes for bugs, which indicates Junior Jobs
apokryphos	k
jonibo	thanks for the great work, Desktop Team!!!
@seb128	many were good one and we had interesting discussions I think
amarillion	apokryphos, that sounds like a nice idea
@seb128	feel free to join #ubuntu-desktop or #ubuntu-bugs if you have any other question
@seb128	jonibo: thank you :)
jonasj	j #ubuntu-desktop
daschl	thank you seb128
jonasj	oops, sorry
stani	thanks
giskard	when packaging?
apokryphos	few minutes
@seb128	amarillion: we discussed that exact thing during the conf we had recently
daschl	time to make tea ;D
@seb128	amarillion: that's somewhat what the "ubuntulove" task is for
Stemp	thank you seb128
@Hobbsee	time to go to bed!
apokryphos	'night Hobbsee
giskard	thank you seb128 :)
Lesley	nite hobbsee
@Hobbsee	night apokryphos
daschl	Hobbsee: what time is it?
Dannilion	Goodnight Hobbsee
mL_	quit
@Hobbsee	daschl: 4am
@seb128	amarillion: we will work in that direction anyway, making clear notes on how to start and having list of easy tasks for that
daschl	Hobbsee: ooh :D .. gn8
@Hobbsee	daschl: coudlnt you see some of hte times as i pasted them with the questions?
@seb128	Hobbsee: thank you for helping on the meeting
@seb128	Hobbsee: you did a good work :)
@seb128	thanks everybody
amarillion	seb128: thanks, I would like to see that
daschl	Hobbsee: i didn't remeber them
@dholbach	thanks seb128
Jucato	thanks for the class
davmor2	thanks seb128
@dholbach	:-)
javamaniac	hugs hour?
@seb128	hi andre :)
fafek2	Have a nice day! Good buy!
fafek2	* bye!
andre	:)
@Hobbsee	seb128: :)
elvstone	damn i really have to go shopping when i get off work in 3 min.. will be a bit late for packaging.
elvstone	everybody stall it! :)
somerville32	:D
Celldweller	what in the world is this room for lol... do i have to enroll
Celldweller	sounds fun
newz2000	elvstone: it's logged and there are other packaging sessions planned
newz2000	Celldweller: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
nalioth	elvstone: there will be transcripts
apokryphos	Celldweller: check the channel topic for all the info.
bettsp	Has anyone converted the Open Week calendar to iCal format? That way, people could add it to Evolution and it'd do the time zone'ing automatically
Jucato	nalioth: offtopic... where are the transcripts for the NWN Ubuntu classes I missed?
levander	Jucato: you've checked the URL in the topic?
TLE	bettsp: there's a google calender with appropriate timezones it can imported into evolution
somerville32	TLE: Is anyone keeping the google calendar up to date?
Jucato	levander: yeah. I was sort of looking for transcripts, not just logs, but thanks anyway :)
rmjb	TLE: evolution isn't respecting the timezone difference
TLE	somerville32: I assume it's being done automatically :: rmjb oh sorry, I wasn't aware if that
TLE	rmjb: well then export from google to ical, wouldn't that work ?
davmor2	!logs
ubotu	Channel logs can be found at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
rmjb	I have the google calendar in evolution in ical format, but it didn't shift the times

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