@jono	I am going to run through some stuff for a bit and then I want to open it up to Q+A for much of the session
@jono	hi everyone, my name is Jono Bacon and I am the Ubuntu Community Manager at Canonical
@jono	a lot of people get pretty confused about what exactly my job is here to do
siretart	berndl: well, there is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/products/revu/+spec/revu. But apart from that, I'm not aware of other specs. Feel free to submit some though.
@jono	my main role is to help keep the wheels in the community rolling, help optimise how the community works, develop better ways of working, and be a point of contact for the community
gummibaerchen	what utc time is now? here it's 6o'clock
berndl	siretart: thanks a lot. i'll read through that...
juliux	gummibaerchen, date -u
@jono	although I am employed by Canonical, I am ultimately judged by the community itself
@jono	as an example, when I started, even though I went through four interviews over a month, I still needed to apply for ubuntu membership
@jono	working for canonical does secure me shortcuts or anything like that, the community is the judge
@jono	this is quite deliberate, the community is central to ubuntu and central to canonical, and we have built an incredible community together
@jono	the fact we have 332 people in here is testement to what our community is capable of doing
@jono	every community needs rules and governance that determines how it works
@jono	the ubuntu community is no different
@jono	<daxelrod> QUESTION: (Feel free to let questions queue up until you're ready): What do you mean by "community"? Anyone who uses Ubuntu, or just those who develop it?
@jono	I am determining community as everyone in the ubuntu ecosystem - developers, users and anyone else
@jono	so, we have some community structures, and right in the middle is the Code of Conduct
@jono	this document species basic standards of practice that most decent people have innately, but it sets a standard for us
@jono	although it is just words on a wiki page, the CoC has become a powerful document and a cornerstone of our community and one that is not used to judge people, but to set levels of how we work together
@jono	in addition to that we have the Community Council
@jono	the Community Council (CC) is a board of nominated contributors who decde on how the community is governed
@jono	they do NOT have to be canonical people
@jono	in fact, mako, who is on the board is not a canonical employee
@jono	the CC make decisions on aspects of governance in the community
@jono	as an example, recently there has been discussion of a Leadership Code of Conduct which outlines core standards of leadership
@jono	that document would be accepted or denied by the CC
@jono	we have also talked about sub-councils known as team councilc
@jono	councils
@jono	so, as an example, the forums would have their own council - they are a large sub-community inside ubuntu, and could do with a council to decide on issues in their domain
@jono	another thing the CC decide on is ubuntu membership
@jono	to be an acknowledged member of the ubuntu project, we ask that contributors go before the CC to apply for membership
@jono	the CC then decide if that person is suitable to known as a member
@jono	more on this in the becoming an ubuntu member session later in the week
@jono	now, our community is hugely diverse
@jono	we have lots of different areas in which people can get involved such as art, documentation, development, packaging etc, and we actively encourage participation in these areas
@jono	we are keen that the ubuntu community does not suffer the same misinterpreation that other communities suffer - that only technical people can be a part of it
@jono	each of our community efforts is broken into different teams, and each team is generally expected to have a mailing list, IRC channel, wiki pages on wiki.ubuntu.com and maybe a forum
mattl	jono: what area could someone who is new to free software and new to GNU/Linux especially get involved with?
@jono	I think people need to figure out what their skills are and decide how they can apply them
@jono	so, if someone is a good artist, the art team would be a good choice, good communicators could join the doc or marketing teams
@jono	<elvstone> QUESTION: What does beeing a member of the Ubuntu Project entail? What would my responsabilities be towards the Project? What makes this different from just beeing a user and contributor to the Ubuntu Project?
mattl	is there a task list, as such? a list of opportunities?
mako	mattl: there are more than one
mako	Margaret wants to hack on the kernel that ships with Ubuntu, and she has already made a few patches, but she has some questions about the format. She needs to get in touch with the kernel maintainers, and she goes to the Participate page to find the relevant contact info, there is none, and she ends up sending the unfinished patches to the ubuntu-devel list instead.
@jono	mattl, more on that in a bit ;)
mako	sorry
mako	paste error
mako	http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
mako	that is the canonical(!) list
mako	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu
@jono	elvstone, being an ubuntu means that you have performed a sustained and substantial contribution to the project
mako	and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu have other ideas
elvstone	jono: ack.
@jono	elvstone, we use ubuntu membership as a method of identifying which people are good strong contributors in the project
mako	mattl: this is the plan to merge these together: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImprovingParticipatePage
@jono	it is a useful yardstick for seperating out solid performers from people who just get a kick out of shouting on mailing lists
mako	which, funnily enough might be a good way to contribute :)
elvstone	jono: i see :)
@jono	<Yawner> QUESTION: How has being employed by Canonical changed your ability to contribute to the Project?
@jono	Yawner, not a huge amount - I am not going to deny that being employed by canonical means some people have more faith in you, because you have been through a pretty solid vetting process - but being employed does not buy any more rights with the community
Yawner	aha ok, thanks
@jono	I fundamentally needed to prove my worth to the community, but the community has been very open to my employment
ivoks	hi akk
ivoks	err all
mattl	jono: the community loves you.
@jono	<leetcharmer> QUESTION: Are there plans to make community involvement even easier?  Perhaps a GUI-based application that would gather information from launchpad that would integrate and help people get started with ease?
@jono	mattl, :P
@jono	leetcharmer, I have *lots* of plans
mattl	i was being sincere!
@jono	about this very issue
@jono	mattl, :)
leetcharmer	huzzah \0/
leetcharmer	tell me :D
@jono	one of the problems with free software communities is that the process of involvement follows this approx path:
@jono	1. someone decides they like free software and they want to help
@jono	2. the person looks at a list of possible teams and ways of contributing and tries to match their skills with a team
@jono	3. they join the tea,m
@jono	now, at point (3) things can get shaky
mattl	jono: i often have pockets of random spare time where i'm sitting with a laptop waiting for a train or a plane or something. be nice if i could use that time to do a microtask that would be useful to the community.
@jono	in most scenarios joining a team involves being thrown in a deep end - a contribution to the team requires a fairly large investment of time and energy
@jono	I am interested in lessening this investment and getting a win for the contributor sooner rather than later
@jono	one plan is to have the concept of "bite size tasks" - a number of tasks for a team that are simple, trivial things to do, but offer a great first step into that team
leetcharmer	That sounds exciting! How can this be made possible? How do you lessen the required amount of time?
leetcharmer	oh! lawl, roite!
@jono	I discussed this at the UDS and Allhands, and I am talking with some of the teams to do this in a consistant way, using tags in launchpad
dsas	jono: Akin to the gnome-love bugs gnome use?
@jono	the key thing is that bitesize tasks have plenty of feedback
@jono	dsas, similar sort of thing
Arby	any estimate when this will happen?
@jono	we trialled this technique with the Jokosher community and it was very successfull
@jono	Arby, I am hoping we can get something sorted over the next few months
leetcharmer	excellent!
@jono	I am also looking into other areas such as standarding documentation and providing better optimised ways of working
finalbeta	I like the tasks idea, would be great for independent coders such as myself to help out when the have some time.
leetcharmer	So, step one is to figure a way to get bite-sized tasks ... what about the actual user experience though?  Making it user friendly enough that novices to even computers could start, right away?
@jono	I trialled some of my ideas with the LoCo team, and it seemed to work pretty well - developing consistancy, documentation, improving team relations etc
@jono	leetcharmer, the actual user experience is where good feedback from the team needs to come in
@jono	it is difficult to write rules to dictate how communities work - it is instead about best practice and learning from our peers
mattl	jono: can you give an example of a task?
@jono	mattl, as an example, it may be a packaging bug
dsas	jono: There was an effort within the desktop team to manage that, with the more experienced members tagging things with  the 'ubuntulove' and others picking up on the tasks.
@jono	dsas, exactly, we need a consistant project way of doing this
@jono	so yeah, expect more on this soon =P
leetcharmer	Example: let's say I have no development computer skills what-so-ever, except for using them and good writing skills -- I'd like to write documentation ... can I click a program, pick a category I'd like to help out -> documentation, pop in some tags and get started and upload?
leetcharmer	That would be nice :D
@jono	other projects include mentoring (trialled with a LoCo pilot), documenting best practice, events and more
@jono	leetcharmer, thats a good idea, but further down the line
@jono	I don;t think the issue here is an interface issue, it is a process issue
@jono	<emonkey-p> QUESTION: jono: you're Community Manager only for Ubuntu or general for all *buntu Distros too? (like kubuntu)
mattl	task based documentation is pretty useful. any way a user could make documentation by simply using the program? ie. it records the menu clicks to a file and lets them write some text around what they just did?
@jono	emonkey-p, althougn my job title is Ubuntu Community Manager, I am here to help all aspects of the community where I can, and I have worked with Kubuntu, Launchpad, Ubuntu, Edubuntu and various others
@jono	<nmsa> Q: jono: are you working with loco teams? does your are include them? how? 'thnx
@jono	nmsa, when I joined, I identified loco teams as a key part of the community
@jono	I have spent quite a lot of time working with locos
pepsiman	leetcharmer: ubuntu docs are going to be maintained in the wiki
@jono	y'know, its interesting, when I started there were lots of locos, but noone talked to each other
@jono	each team was its own little independent unit
@jono	I wanted to first get people talking to each other - we are a community and our biggest strength is how we communicate and learn from each other
@jono	so I revived loco-contacts and encouraged people to talk to each other
leetcharmer	pepsiman, then I would like to request a program that reads from the wiki and would let you write from an interface, to streamline things easier rather than through web
@jono	I also encouraged teams to share their experience, stories and other tips to figure out how to best run the teams
LaserJock	pepsiman: that's not entirely correct, but there is a lot of documentation on the wiki
@jono	another issue was the sparse and badly organised documentation, so I tidied up the wiki, added a consistant menu bar, created a knowledge base, encouraged teams to contribute docs and formed regular meetings
@jono	finally, I worked to help improve the process of how loco teams are approved
@jono	in the ubuntu project there are two types of team - new and approved - approved teams are the equivilent of ubuntu members, but for teams - teams that we know work well
@jono	and recently I have been working on some ideas to unify loco resources in launchpad
@jono	one of the problems we have with teams right now is that teams are spending too much time messing around with setting up websites, planets and user maps, and not spending their time teambuilding
@jono	I want to reduce this resource based time, make things easier to set up, and get teams to concentrate on *making great teams*
@jono	y'know, we have loco teams in nearly every single country in the world
Circus-Killer	thats one thing our loco team is strugglinh with
@jono	and on the loco mailing lists we have *over* 10,000 subscribers
@jono	we have an incredible backbone here, and I am keen to see it get better
tonyyarusso	jono: Does that mean a unified, available framework for things like websites, planets, and maps that teams can just plug stuff into a template for?
@jono	Circus-Killer, ping me later and we can discuss it
mattl	jono: how useful is a loco team for a large country? wouldn't a city based or region based loco be better?
@jono	tonyyarusso, the idea is that a planet, website, user map etc should just be able to be "flipped on" - with a consistant look and feel - I would like to see people contentrate on "content" and not infrastructure
@jono	mattl, this is an issue
@jono	for some countries we divide it
@jono	for the USA, loco teams are at a state level
@jono	but for some places it is a country level
mattl	at what point does a Loco be more like a GLUG?
SimonAnibal	jono, what do you mean by "team building"?
tonyyarusso	jono: But what is being done to make that the case?  Do we have something in place for new locos to click the "turn on" button?
@jono	mattl, they have different purposes in many ways - lugs are often places where people (a) meet up (b) get support and (c) talk about a range of issues - locos are primarily advocacy and translations vehicles for the ubuntu community
mattl	do you see a loco as a group of people who go to LUGs and spread the ubuntu love?
@jono	SimonAnibal, the real value in a team is how people work together, organise themselves and get stuff done - I want to see more of that and less debate about whether to use drupal or plone :P
mattl	heh.
@jono	tonyyarusso, there was a spec at the UDS about this, and some additions to launchpad are being discussed
mattl	phpnuke, surely?
@jono	mattl, can you post questions in -caht
@jono	-chat
@jono	<juliux> QUESTION: is there a plan to have something like the gnome foundation that leads the project?
@jono	juliux, we do have the ubuntu foundation, but is primarily a fund which would kick in if canonical or mark was to go away
@jono	right now there seems little need for foundation in my own view
juliux	jono, i mean from the community side
@jono	I think we want to get away from making more and more governance infrastructure and spend more time *doing stuff*
@jono	juliux, the community council is the governance infrastructure there
@jono	<Ng> QUESTION: How do we grow a rocking beard like yours?
@jono	Ng, its tough, but it takes down, shampoo and condition every day
@jono	<nmsa> Q: jono: again, sorry, are you working with loco teams? does your area include them? how? 'thnx
Admiral_Chicago	jono: but don't you see a practical application for approved teams to have planets? it seems having a unified point of communication (that maybe isn't IRC) is a useful thing.
@jono	I do indeed, I help the UK team
@jono	Admiral_Chicago, exactly - I am keen to get more perks for approved teams
Admiral_Chicago	jono: good to hear, can you talk briefly on mailing lists in general and their use?
@jono	Admiral_Chicago, we can rely on those teams, and there has been discussion about sending out event kits to them, using them for more formal events, providing these teams with additional help and we also send edgy cds to approved teams
@jono	Admiral_Chicago, what do you mean about lists?
@jono	<gummibaerchen> Q: Who decide who leads the LoCo Teams?
@jono	gummibaerchen,  it varies - not all teams need leaders
Admiral_Chicago	jono: for example, mailing list being used for support requests, pro/cons of having a mailing list
@jono	usually the person who founds the team often leads it, some teams have elections and some have informal methods of voting people in
gummibaerchen	jono: But I mean the leader in Launchpad for example.
@jono	Admiral_Chicago, mailing lists are essential for all teams, but I always recommend that with a new team to stick with a single list
gummibaerchen	Who gave them their rights?
Admiral_Chicago	gummibaerchen: for example, Chicago LoCo does not have a leader, we decided we don't need one. we have a main contact (nixternal) but he isn't an established leader
@jono	gummibaerchen, eh?
@jono	Admiral_Chicago, as an example, when people set up discussion forums, a lot of people add 10 sub-forums
LaserJock	gummibaerchen: when somebody creates a team in Launchpad they are the owner
@jono	and there is a temptation for people to split out across lots of lists
popey	wik/win 44
Smiffeh	jono: as community manager what sort of relationship do you have with the marketing team?
popey	eek
popey	sorry
@jono	I always recommend that communication is kept to single list or forum - it helps everyone see each other
@jono	Smiffeh, I am beginning to work with the marketing team and had a discussion with corey last night about it
@jono	I am also developing processes to improve how the canonical marketing team and the community marketing team works together
Smiffeh	and what conclusions are you reaching about the direction they should take?
Admiral_Chicago	ah i see, speaking as a spam killer, i know the mailing lists get spam often, I usually go in once a day and approve / deny the appropriate emails, i see this as a con to having mailing list
Admiral_Chicago	they have a certain level of maintainanc
@jono	Smiffeh, I have views on the marketing team - I think we need to use the marketing team as a central to push stuff out of the community  - right now the marketing team does to much inter-ubuntu-community marketing - I would like to see other teams (such as loco teams) feed the marketing team with content and then the expertise of the marketing team can push and promote that information
@jono	<somerville32> QUESTION: What role do you play in the communities of the Ubuntu sister projects like Xubuntu or Kubuntu? Do you have any plans/goals for these projects?
@jono	somerville32, I covered this a bit earlier, I am here to help with their community building in the same way I do for ubuntu - my door is always open to people who need help
somerville32	:)
@jono	<fafek2> QUESTION: Don't you think Ubuntu community is somewhat careless? I mean posting bug reports and feature request in many other places like forums instead of Launchpad; grumbling about some lack in Ubuntu on personal blogs, instead of writing clear specification and so on...
@jono	fafek2, sure, there is lots of misguided work, but that is not solvable with a quick fix - it relies on good solid examples being set by key community figures, and good processes
@jono	I think we can improve things in many areas by developing these processes
@jono	let me be 100% clear here with my intentions
@jono	I want the Ubuntu community to be the finest example of free software community in action
@jono	we have all the right ingredients, we have all the potential, we just need to fix some things to improve our community
@jono	this is not about me telling people what to do, but about me coming up with ideas and suggestions that do not disrupt workflow but make things better
fafek2	Maybe Ubuntu Forums moderators could be more determined?
@jono	right now, I am going after low-hanging fruit - easy wins that will reap a great return on community productivity
@jono	fafek2, thats a seperate issue
@jono	<somerville32> QUESTION: Whats the best way to get in contact with you?
@jono	well, I live on IRC during the days (around 8.30am - 6pm UTC) and I can also be gotten in touch at jono AT ubuntu DOT com
@jono	I also blog a lot at jonobacon.org
Smiffeh	jono: do you feel marketing should be working to attract a non-technical audience to Ubuntu to try and begin to dispel the "linux is not suitable for the desktop" myth
l	awesome!!
@jono	Smiffeh, yes indeed
tsmithe	Smiffeh, arent they already?
bhale	questions in -chat guys
@jono	Smiffeh, marketing is a multi-faceted approach - we need to approach different demographics with a consistant message - education, non-techical users, developers, charities - they are all ripe pickings :)
@jono	<LoudMouthMan> QUESTION: What mechanisms/oversight do you feel may be needed to avoid people sitting around deciding to be "the peoples front of judea" or " the judean peoples front ", navel gazing in other words.
@jono	LoudMouthMan, whingers will always whinge
@jono	personally, I am not interested in talking to whingers
Smiffeh	From what i have seen so far they seem to be promoting the distro's activities in channels that appeal more to the technical usership.
@jono	I am not interested in providing people with blog fodder
bhale	Smiffeh: if you think other channels need to be targetted you could be the newest member of the marketing team
@jono	I am interesting in making our community have a standard of "can do" - I personally can't stand people who do nothing but complain, bemoan and otherwise feedback over things they can actually change
@jono	this entire free software landscape is mouldable, changable and has the ability to be bettered in every way
@jono	this is why I always try to encourage people to do stuff, then discuss
@jono	too many contributors start out by setting up a mailing list, svn server, website and such and then spend six months discussing thing they will ultimately never do
@jono	I always say "do it, and then discuss it"
LaserJock	\o/
@jono	we need to get into a habit of making stuff happen
@jono	gummibaerchen> QUESTION: Is it possible that gives up it's Debian Base?
@jono	gummibaerchen,  what does?
MacSlow	jono, pretty good stance there!
@jono	ok lots of questions, not enough time
@jono	gonna pick and choose what has not been covered
MacSlow	jono, I fully agree with this attitude
@jono	<levander> QUESTION: Why not merge the Loco's and LUG's so that a Loco is basically a "department" inside the local LUG?  Just seems like more cross-traffic between the two that way.
@jono	I don't think it works that way - the two are incompatible at level - they are different types of groups that should intead work together to achieve common goals
@jono	<tonyyarusso> QUESTION: One issue the marketing team has atm is that Canonical wants to be the only one writing press releases, but isn't doing any for the non-tech community.  Does your interfacing w/Canonical and that team include dealing with things like that?
@jono	tonyyarusso, indeed - as part of my Canonical/Community work I am trying to improve relations so we can work together on things like this - I am booking meetings with the business development team at canonical to improve on these issues
@jono	<mattl> QUESTION:  If you want the Ubuntu community to be the finest example of free software community in action (and it's something I would love to see happen!) - how do we begin to expel proprietary software from Ubuntu so it can live up to that?
tonyyarusso	jono: awesome.  Looking forward to results of those.
@jono	mattl, speaking personally, I am not interested in taking away choice from the user - I want to help to provide a solid free software Operating System, but I am also open to the fact that people may choose to run proprietary software on it - that it their choice - personally I don't feel freedom includes the right to remove choice - but I do believe we need to make Ubuntu a solid free software base in which people can use it fo
@jono	r what they like - this is a big issue, and one I have a blog post lined up for next week
_ubu	jono you can't expell propriety software
sabdfl	can I chip in?
@jono	sabdfl, sure
sabdfl	mattl: Ubuntu has never been free-software-only, top to bottom
_ubu	unless you you come up withan alternative to flash, win32 codecs and the lot...
sabdfl	we have since the beginning included some proprietary drivers, for example, for wifi
sabdfl	it has, I think, always been possible to install Ubuntu without those pieces
sabdfl	they are in a specific place in the distro, called "restricted", so they are easy to identify and purge
sabdfl	and distros like gNewSense are basically ubuntu without those pieces
leetcharmer	alternatively -- there is now also gnuSense which ... man, he's one step ahead of me.
@jono	right
@jono	well I think our time is up
sabdfl	in addition, we have also made packages of proprietary software available, just not accessible by default
mattl	we can't tell people to not install things... however, we can not distribute them.
mattl	if people want Flash, Win32Codecs or Opera, they will get it.
@jono	thanks for the excellent questions, I wish I could have got through more
somerville32	Thanks Jono! :)
juliux	thanks jono
mattl	but I think Ubuntu could set the bar by saying they won't distribute them.
sabdfl	mattl: my point is that this has always been the case - at our very first face to face meeting we decided to allow firmware, and binary drivers, just not proprietary apps
@jono	I think I will open up the session on wednesday at 5pm UTC with Q+A so do come back then :)
leetcharmer	it's cool .. thanks jono bacon :D I look forward to Jokosher!
somerville32	Jono: If you ever need a hand, I'm always happy to help with stuff! :)
@jono	oops 6pm rather
emonkey-p	jono, thx for this talk, it was a pleasure and I'm sure we'll talk soon about several things :)
Joe_CoT	even if you wanted a completely free Ubuntu, shipping it without proprietary software alienates people. it causes wifi cards not to work, video cards to be unsupported, etc. you can't install the binary wifi driver if you have no internet ;-/
@jono	thanks folks, take care!
sabdfl	our goal is to get free software as widely used and tested and loved as possible
sabdfl	and we do compromise in order to get it installed and fully using the hardware
_ubu	I agree with Joe_cot
sabdfl	gNewSense takes a strong line, try that if it's what you want
sabdfl	Debian says no to binary drivers but yes to firmware, which IMO is the same thing
mattl	sabdfl: i think that compromise is an unfortunate one, and i feel the message from Ubuntu is a confusing one.
mattl	sabdfl: agreed that firmwares and drivers are the same.
sabdfl	mattl: noted
sabdfl	thanks jono
@jono	sabdfl, np, thanks for your comments too
MacSlow	jono, tomorrow your session on "how to become a member" starts at 15:00 GMT ?!
mattl	sabdfl: when you say If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.” - i think that's a great statement, but i don't think it's true. if there are binary blobs and binary drivers by default?
somerville32	Can I ask one last quick question, Jono?
leetcharmer	sabdfl, If I wanted to become an entrepreneur, resulting in helping out many people -- what type of work would I do?
@jono	somerville32, /msg me
sabdfl	mattl: yes, its true that ubuntu is not without controversy, i was not suggesting ubuntu is perfect
jordi	next in the classroom is Rosetta!
@jono	MacSlow, yep
sabdfl	but i think our approach is clear, is well known, and does not create very dangerous situations for other developers, which is what i am objecting to in the novell-msft pact

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